Curse

Lord Mendes · Mar 19, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Volume of feedback != good feedback.

He probably chose his words very deliberately. ANet doesn't get "good" feedback (at least not from us) because everyone wants something a little different, and about 90% of the ideas I see posted here to "improve" HA are garbage.

ANet isn't getting good feedback. They're getting a tounge lashing from about 2 or 3 dozen armchair CEOs.

Ensign's feedback alone is enough to compensate the for usual trash posted on these forums.
Also, I have yet to disagree with Patccmoi.

Death_From_Above · Mar 19, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

rofl anet sure does get good feedback and where. Not the players faults they threw it back in our face. Iv heard many logical statements which present good arguments for why a certain change would be correct. All i have to say is kill count? Players a large number complained about that and what did we get, we got it removed from HA woot such a victory. Anet obviously didnt read the mature posts with logical arguments from many HAers.

I understand that not all feedback is good but when a majority of players are echoing the same thing and many other people you can ask randomly in HA seem to agree well what can i say. Im starting to wonder why these polls were even held, anet were fast 2 change HA to 6v6 when they did a poll for it which no one new aboue but look how long its taking to change it to 8v8 when 8v8 has clearly won. Basically as i said before, anet are trying to make themselves look good, oh ye we listern to our players this and that?

They say we dont give good feedback but thats probs why when many people complained initaly about the 6v6 to 8v8 they ignored us an look wats happened. HAs dead, izzy and the rest to be honest dont care what we have to say there only intrested in what they think will work and to cover there backs so that they dont get a whip lash there asking us but there still going to do what they want. As i said kill counts a prime example, all we did was ask for 8v8 so why give us kill count.

Made 2 problems out of 1 its rather stupid, it just shows there defiant and clearly dont want to look wrong for the mistakes they have made. Nadia you mentioned about the ideas you saw posted here to improve HA being garbage, well of corse the quality will decrease when weve spoken now for 8 months and we've been ignored. Go to the old posts like how to improve heros accent which i know you've posted on numerous times and you will see lots of good constructive non flameable feedback there from the start onwards. And as for Galie, has she been hiding or something because i havent heard of her for a long time.

An angry HA community and no representative of anet to calm them down. Rather disterbing, i thought companys when they found a large number of customers were upset with them addressed them asap to reasure them. As i said it just shows anet consider drinking tea and sitting down more important than us players. On thing i will like to credit you about Nadia is about the good HA players or experianced ones being left in the wind and that is somethin too that concerns me. But ye a very valid point.

Golden Rice · Mar 19, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

pvp is skill based, anet is trying to close the gap between the very exp and the noobs, which obviously isn't working too well

tomcruisejr · Mar 19, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Because WoW has about 10x as much PvE content.

And in the context of PvP, WoW is now more of a joke than ever, and arenas are help proving it. Everything is way too strong, CC spam is ridiculous.

Try to imagine if Eviscerate didn't cause DW, but instead was 1/2-sec and caused an unremovable condition that reduced healing by 50% for a few seconds. Oh yeah, Rend Enchantments also has no cooldown, and neither does Smite Hex. Meanwhile, almost every class has some way of knocking you down for 5 seconds.

That's WoW PvP. It's absurd. Please do not bring it up.

Thus,

Disgruntled GW players move to WoW because they love PvE and overpowered skills.

Bread Fan · Mar 19, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Thus,

Disgruntled GW players move to WoW because they love PvE and overpowered skills.

No GW players move on to WoW because they are frustrated and exhausted from misleading PvE reps. Thus a fresh game will occupy the void for awhile and players will be hesistant on purchasing products that Anet releases in the future.

Thomas.knbk · Mar 19, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Ensign's feedback alone is enough to compensate the for usual trash posted on these forums.
Also, I have yet to disagree with Patccmoi.

I have to agree with this.
JR and Squidget were pretty good at it too, but I haven't seen a post from either of them in a while, and messages on other forums have lead me to believe that Squidget has actually quit the game.

What I would really, really like to see on this forum is that Izzy makes an account, visits the PvP Skill Discussion forum, and give his opinion on the suggestions. Ensign and Patccmoi could discuss their ideas with him. IMO, that would make guild wars a better place to be.
Sadly, this could never happen. Izzy could never have a recognizable account on guildwarsguru. The flaming and dev-bashing by (the immature part of) this forum community would be unimaginable.

lacasner · Mar 19, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Disgruntled GW players move to WoW because they love PvE and overpowered skills.

If Anet just added more PvE content then we wouldn't have this problem. Tyrian -esque chapters ftw.

TheLordOfBlah · Mar 20, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bread Fan

P.S - It is quite pathetic that one has to hang out in Lion's Arch or some other PvE ONLY area to get some feedback as to where Anet stands on this.

Stop crying, you dont have to sit anywhere... thats what the Dev forum here is for.

coleslawdressin · Mar 20, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

Stop crying, you dont have to sit anywhere... thats what the Dev forum here is for.

Gaile posted on guru misleading everyone to believe that they would have their decision nearly 3 weeks ago. Someone who did sit in a PVE area and listen to gaile chat showed us that she said she thinks a decision might be announced within 1 week (present time) to 2 weeks (next week).

Crying? If they are so stupid as to keep 6v6, I will berate ANET and log in only to grief the 6v6 lovers as much as I like tyvm. You sound like the type of person who was never good at 8v8, played 6v6 up to rank 3 or so max, and would defend it, baselessly, to no end when you would rather go farm underworld.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Volume of feedback != good feedback.

ANet isn't getting good feedback. They're getting a tounge lashing from about 2 or 3 dozen armchair CEOs.

The volume in feedback would be cut in at least half if they actually communicated their intentions for 6v6 or 8v8! (owned)

Assuming Gaile isn't outright misleading us, (possible) they have already made their decision but are delaying it to avoid the backlash IMO.

I think they deserve the tongue lashing that they get too. I guess I am an armchair CEO, but there are well documented cases of the benefits/drawbacks of having consistent/non-existent customer relations.

Billiard · Mar 20, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Gaile can only release information that the Devs say is okay to release. Also, she is not a Dev herself, so some of the more intricate things she may not be knowledgeable of, both PvE and PvP. ANet has really been working hard on HA issues pretty much non-stop since before my visit in January. It is not as easy as everyone here tries to make it out to be, and I think you'll see why when the changes do come out.

As someone who has been around a long time I would like to point out that HA has always had a lot of issues and complaints, and I find it really interesting to see so much vehement discussion now to go back to the "good old days" when in fact there was as much complaining about the system then as there is now - just the focus was different.

Finally I know there are a lot of folks questioning why any changes were made in the first place. My take on that is that the old system was never functioning as it was orginally intended, but the devs had more pressing things (new content, tournaments, etc) to focus on. Yes there were some people who like it the way it was, but there were also a lot of people who hated it and because of that never even went into HA. As it is now, I know a lot of folks that love HA and have easily adapted to all of the changes that ANet has thrown at them. The reason they can do this is that they are experienced and skilled players.

Alleji · Mar 20, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

It is not as easy as everyone here tries to make it out to be, and I think you'll see why when the changes do come out.

I don't see how it is hard to restore HA to the way it was before factions (8v8, holding, 5 teams, scarred earth for all I care), unless they deleted the code for that from their servers.

And what changes are you talking about? There are more changes other than the decision between 6v6 and 8v8 in the works? If so, yes, I'm 95% sure I'll see more garbage they shouldn't have wasted time on.

Undressed · Mar 20, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

I don't see how it is hard to restore HA to the way it was before factions (8v8, holding, 5 teams, scarred earth for all I care), unless they deleted the code for that from their servers.

I don't see how hard it is to understand or GRASP that old HoH was not less retarded than current 6 vs 6, unless you went to the same school as the crybabies here.

coleslawdressin · Mar 20, 2007, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Gaile can only release information that the Devs say is okay to release. Also, she is not a Dev herself, so some of the more intricate things she may not be knowledgeable of, both PvE and PvP.

Yes, we all know she can't comment on jack shit about what they intend to do for whatever reason.

ALSO, I read her saying how someone gave her "dev" status. We also all know she is not skilled at PVP or an actual PVP developer. She does great for the PVE side of things but if they want to REALIZE open beta testing they need someone competent to actually communicate with the players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

ANet has really been working hard on HA issues pretty much non-stop since before my visit in January.

ORLYYYYYYYYYY? Please point out to me the results of their non-stop hard work because it seems to me like tombs was relatively ignored for the first year+ of the game, at which point they bought into some stupid fan polls no real players took seriously and here we have ruined 6v6 tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

It is not as easy as everyone here tries to make it out to be, and I think you'll see why when the changes do come out.

You have some inside info or you are BSing more? Morello says he could have fixed discord and put a new build up instantly but he had to get it approved. This was roughly before a skill balance update actually appeared. If they spend months of effort on an update but ignore player's input I see that as wasted time not hard work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

As someone who has been around a long time I would like to point out that HA has always had a lot of issues and complaints, and I find it really interesting to see so much vehement discussion now to go back to the "good old days" when in fact there was as much complaining about the system then as there is now - just the focus was different.

Did you just make me read that whole paragraph to figure out that you prefer 6v6? I don't care how long you claim to have been around...... Your entire post is largely pointless IMO.

There is no intelligent argument that I have EVER read for going back to old-style 8v8 altar holding OR any form of 6v6. Please do not collude people who want 8v8 with people who want the old altar only system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Finally I know there are a lot of folks questioning why any changes were made in the first place. My take on that is that the old system was never functioning as it was orginally intended, but the devs had more pressing things (new content, tournaments, etc) to focus on.

Please explain how it was originally intended to work and how the current or planned changes have approached their intentions. (Don't worry I don't expect an actual real answer.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Yes there were some people who like it the way it was, but there were also a lot of people who hated it and because of that never even went into HA.

I am one of many people who will never play any form of 6v6 because I hate it. There are ZERO (let me say it again NO/NONE/NADA) reasons that are good enough to keep 6v6 that justify it compared to the reasons to keep it 8v8. If you have one please say something tangible for once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

As it is now, I know a lot of folks that love HA and have easily adapted to all of the changes that ANet has thrown at them. The reason they can do this is that they are experienced and skilled players.

Oh, I can't adapt because I am not an experienced or skilled player? Is that SERIOUSLY what you are saying? Sorry but people who will come out and advocate 6v6 are by and large scrubs. I could adapt if I was playing for a fame title, but I was actually playing for real competition vaguely resembling that in GVG.

I can count on one hand the few people who I respect as GW players who have ever advocated 6v6 at all.

God of Killing · Mar 20, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Funny, I seem to remember all the complaints during the 8v8 days having to do with skill balance, and maybe the occasional get rid of scared or relic run complaints. I don't seem to remember even a small part of the HA community saying that a drastic overhaul was needed. I do however seem to remember a decent chunk of the PvE community demanding a drastic overhaul because they 'could not' get fame. My typical reply to this was always simple, stop complaining and start organizing groups. We didn't all magically start with rank and are using that to now limit our group selection. Rank greatly helped tell exp. and I always liked the higher odds of picking up a monk who knew proper kiting, or casters who knew to wand trappers, or people who generally knew how each map was set up. Sure we complained about old halls, but that was for balancing issues. I see plenty of complaints about pve areas yet that entire system hasn't been retooled. Why? Probably because the complaints are not about the system itself, but glitches, bugs, and balance issues. Imagine if the HA community complained that they tried to pve last week and couldn't find a group so they demanded a fix and Anet went and overhauled the entire pve system. I want 8v8 back and kill count dead because if there is one thing I miss more than anything else right now, it's running a hex degen build loaded with utility. Though to be honest, I think a change back to the old system now is too late to bring back most of the players they left. I've had to delete over 60 names from friends lists because 'oh uh hi, he's um letting me borrow his account,' or 'oh, he um gave his account to me.'

Billiard · Mar 20, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

First of all, I don't really care if HA is 8v8 or 6v6. I like 8v8 for a variety of reasons, but like most civilized people I can appreciate that some folks do like 6v6. Also, no matter how much people say they liked the old 8v8, I do know we had a lot of people complaining in the community all the time about it as well.

And yes there was a huge gap between the haves and the havenots back then in terms of fame, and probably that was something that ANet was trying to address since HA used to be the entry point for a lot of people into more serious PvP. And the reason why this was important quite frankly was because PvP in GW was and probably is still slowly dying out due to difficulty of new players coming in and competing. A lot of the changes that have been made to game in the past year seem to me to be specifically geared towards helping people make the transition to PvP, because its not very easy to do. I have literally trained hundreds of people to help them make this move. Its not easy and few people/guilds actually do this, and fewer still are doing it now.

I also stand by my contention that the old run a holding build and shoot for a hall skip mechanic was not what the devs intended HA to be. So no matter how fun people found that, I don't see why the devs should leave it broken if they thought they could fix it and make it work they way they originally designed it to.

As far as working on HA, I said yes they ignored HA for a long time and then it became more of a priority and more recently they have been working hard on it. And yes I do know they have been and are currently working hard on it, and I also do know that they are trying not to rush into changes like they did in the past, but rather want to make sure things are indeed going to work as the devs intend. Maybe I am just a patient person by my nature and don't mind waiting a little while longer. I will admit though that I am waiting for the changes before I jump back into HA.

And coles I don't know why you chose to attack my posting so vehemently. My posting was a general post and not directed at anyone in particular. Yet you assume that I was trying to advocate a position, attacked my post as pointless, and inferred that I was a scrub. I am sorry but this entire thread is pointless using your own criteria, and we are all scrubs as far as I can tell. I am merely trying to provide a balanced picture because in fact I do happen to know the history of HA as well as anyone else here and I happen to know what is going on now. If you disagree with this, that's fine. Just don't get into personal attacks on these forums.

Death_From_Above · Mar 20, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

[quote=Billiard] I like 8v8 for a variety of reasons, but like most civilized people I can appreciate that some folks do like 6v6. I do know we had a lot of people complaining in the community all the time about it as well. [quote]

I bet it was not as much as the ammount of people complaining about it now was it not. If so i think the districts would have plummeted just like they have now. Some people do like 6v6 thats true. But very very few in comparrsion to all the HA players who prefer 8v8 and because of the change quit or are on extended retirement of have gone to pve so to be honest that is in no way a valid argument. Displease the majority for the minority, i think polloticians for elections should true that,would be intrestin 2 see how far they go.

[quote]
And yes there was a huge gap between the haves and the havenots back then in terms of fame, and probably that was something that ANet was trying to address since HA used to be the entry point for a lot of people into more serious PvP. And the reason why this was important quite frankly was because PvP in GW was and probably is still slowly dying out due to difficulty of new players coming in and competing. ][quote]

Firstly i hear this claime of HA slowly dying from anet. I would liek to know what slowly is to them being Alexs that dev guy whatevers idea of the HA 8v8 an 6v6 polls was close. When some players even went and did it themselves and found it was noway near close. So whats anets idea of slowly, 1 2 players 3 players 4 5 a months lol lame. Well one thing anet did was they made it die like 1mil times the faster (clap clap never thought it possible). And after realising this they remaind stubbon and took upon themselves the features of a snail who had salt put over him.

][quote]
A lot of the changes that have been made to game in the past year seem to me to be specifically geared towards helping people make the transition to PvP, because its not very easy to do. I have literally trained hundreds of people to help them make this move. Its not easy and few people/guilds actually do this, and fewer still are doing it now.][quote]

Well i wasnt trained and neither where many of my friends. We joined groups when low rank, made groups and eventually we got there. You cannot downgrade something just because some people finding it difficult. Its like getting someone who hasnt driven to drive a car. They will crash it, untill they learn and master the spirit and way ofthe car. They will stand no chance. In the same way theres no point simplifying HA just so those finding it hard can find it easyer. Its like me going into proffesional boxing and knocking out muhamed ali or some other pro boxer training for so long when i havent even had any boxin experiance. You can start from the top of a ladder you must start from the bottem. I donno about you but if u think heal party on a war is good an the way 2 go then u shouldnt even have a shot at HA you should rather keep playing and whiles playing learning so you come into realisation and are now able to compete at a high level. High ranks dont take a liking to gettin beaten by rank 2s or 0s when they more skilled just because there using a specific build.
][quote]

I also stand by my contention that the old run a holding build and shoot for a hall skip mechanic was not what the devs intended HA to be. So no matter how fun people found that, I don't see why the devs should leave it broken if they thought they could fix it and make it work they way they originally designed it to.][quote]

How many people did that? How many holding builds did you see. They were there but they werent like oh the elite stuff u saw ever map. Also this can easily be fixed, if they need 2 skip all maps like relic runs ect to get to HA and hold there are better alternatives to fixing this like say just not lettin HA skips ect you get the drift. Also these teams werent unbeatable i would like to add. Just needed correct utility and hopefuly a good tatic.

][quote]
As far as working on HA, I said yes they ignored HA for a long time and then it became more of a priority and more recently they have been working hard on it. And yes I do know they have been and are currently working hard on it, and I also do know that they are trying not to rush into changes like they did in the past, but rather want to make sure things are indeed going to work as the devs intend. Maybe I am just a patient person by my nature and don't mind waiting a little while longer. I will admit though that I am waiting for the changes before I jump back into HA.][quote]

Ye they have been working hard on it for lets see 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ooooh almost 9 months now. Im very impressed. 9 months to not even make the game but to fix something in the game. Wow thats slow, anet havent been working hard other wise events like pve roller beatle racing ect wouldnt be taking place, wonder how long it took to make that. Basically there just lazy and thats all they are, they dont care an HAs not on there top list. They have realised they messed it up so badly that trying to fix it really has no urgent point to it being they have suffered greately for it. Anet cannot be given any credit in this circumstance because its meerly a way to keep us shut up. 3 weeks so far to make a decsision not includin the time before they had to. Come on you being serious? Sounds like there trying to pass a new bill or something. To be honest i think your just very very pacient, im a pacient guy and so are many of my friends but i have realised i havent got forever and shouldnt have to.

][quote]and coles I don't know who you are or why you chose to attack my posting so vehemently. ][quote]

Have some mercy on the guy, hes frustrated as many players are so dont be surprised with such a response. Anet have wound everyone up and now there exploading like a cork in a shampaign so dont take it personaly, hes meerly helping you to see the light.

btw just wanted to ask why billards name gets to be in italics black?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

I don't see how hard it is to understand or GRASP that old HoH was not less retarded than current 6 vs 6, unless you went to the same school as the crybabies here.

English please because i think your talking 10 forigen languages at once. Old ha was much better hence why so many people quit with the new HA. Were not crybabies were just players who payed for the game, all we wanted was HA were not demanding like ooohh anet this this and then anet go and put in changes which no1 wants. Maybe you should try reading, it mite actually help you understand how 8v8 owns 6v6. check the how to improve HA post before you start making judgements concering us (regarding the crybabies) and look at where were commin from first. You just come across as someone who wants to argue for arguings sake. If you wanna do that go somewhere else because most of us are not intrested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLordOfBlah

Stop crying, you dont have to sit anywhere... thats what the Dev forum here is for.

Cough, oh ye it is here. But oh wait, look at this, i dont seem to be able to see any posts by galie or alex in relation to HA. oH LOOOOOK I just checked this whole thread to and not one. Need i say anymore. Yes you do have to sit in a pve area to hear that my friend and u obviously are commenting when you clearly dont know what your on about. Other wise you would know what he is saying is sence. Otherwise can you please tell me where it has been posted by galie or a dev that HA will be fully decided in like 2 weeks from now. I believe only place your gonna hear that is in the pve area where she said it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

Finally I know there are a lot of folks questioning why any changes were made in the first place. My take on that is that the old system was never functioning as it was orginally intended, but the devs had more pressing things (new content, tournaments, etc) to focus on. Yes there were some people who like it the way it was, but there were also a lot of people who hated it and because of that never even went into HA. As it is now, I know a lot of folks that love HA and have easily adapted to all of the changes that ANet has thrown at them. The reason they can do this is that they are experienced and skilled players.

So the amount of people who hated it was greater than those who liked it are you implying. Because the districts now lefy say other wise. Its not players cant adapt to it, sure you can if your after fame. But i dont play ha just for fame, i play for competition fun unpredictability. If im gonna be forced to run 1 assasin 1 roa and an ele and 2 monks no ty because it basically takes away the reasons why i play. I popped on gw for a visit yesterday to say hi to my friends. Not surprisingly, a list which would have 30 players on like on average had only about 6. Secondly when speaking to these players on many said they were infact lookin for a new game at mo. I even know one guy who adapted, he played 6v6 though he preferd 8v8, wheres he now. Hes not even on, please inform me when you last saw someone spammin in id 1 HA guild lookin for players? We can adapt its just the fact no point settling for somethin which 1 is not fun and 2 is not as good as something before. As i said were not gonna play anet for the sake of it we play it for a reason.

Randomway Ftw · Mar 20, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

I don't see how hard it is to understand or GRASP that old HoH was not less retarded than current 6 vs 6, unless you went to the same school as the crybabies here.

It's hard to grasp because its not true.

Death_From_Above · Mar 20, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Id have to agree. How do you grasph something that isnt true? Its like saying the world has no mountains. I simply cannot grasph the concept and neither can albert einstein. Your statements challange even the best of minds. Maybe thats saying something about them..........................................

tacitus · Mar 21, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billiard

As it is now, I know a lot of folks that love HA and have easily adapted to all of the changes that ANet has thrown at them. The reason they can do this is that they are experienced and skilled players.

Its not a case of people not being able to adapt many people including myself adapted well and got a lot of fame under the 6v6 system that doesnt mean we liked it. I believe the 6v6 version of ha is shadow of it former self. Just because people dont like 6v6 doesnt mean they were not able to adapt or win as much as before it is there opinion. Im sure those folks u know are experienced and skilled but that doesnt make them unique and many other experienced skilled players want a return of 8v8 for reasons already posted many times on these forums.

defrule · Mar 21, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

ArenaNet: Fansite admins are coming, look busy!